One of the most basic goals in any video game is to save the world. Just about everyone who games has played a title where you’re tasked with going on an epic adventure to stop a nefarious villain, but when it comes to RPGs, there are a few groups of heroes who really shouldn’t have been able to save the day.

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Whether it’s due to the odds just being so stacked against the heroes, the group not having the expertise to take on the challenges before them, or just because the only reason the group manages to thrive is thanks to your control, not every RPG party should be able to make it to the end of their journey.

10Final Fantasy 4

While there are more thana few Final Fantasy partiesthat shouldn’t have been able to save the world, one of the most obvious is fromFinal Fantasy 4. One of the biggest reasons being, almost every party member either betrays the group or basically dies at some point.

Sure, those deaths are all just fakeouts, but without the convenience of the plot, Cecil and Rosa were definitely going to be doomed. Without fake-out deaths, Yang, Cid, Rydia, Palom, Porom, Edward, and even Tellah would all have been unavailable to help out, twice in the case of Yang.

Final Fantasy 4 Pixel Remaster Magus Sisters

9Persona 4 Golden

I’m sorry, but any group that features Yosuke Hanamura is going to have one seriously tough time succeeding.He’s a lovable goof, but he’s as big of a liability as Teddy. The big issue isn’t even Yosuke, it’s more the bizarre circumstances.

Could a group of high schoolers like the ones inPersona 4solve the murders that are going on in Inaba? Maybe. Could they stop the killer before then going on to fight and beat a literal god? I’m going to go ahead and say that, even with the help of powerful personas, there’s absolutely no shot.

Persona 4 Golden characters

8Yakuza: Like A Dragon

The cast ofYakuza: Like A Dragonis more or less a group of rejects of society, and that is something that helps you root for them. It’s also that very thing that makes seeing them succeed a lot more difficult to believe, especially when they’re battling crime groups and powerful foes.

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They may be able to take out the odd hooligan and hippie, but I just don’t know if Kasuga would be capable of figuring out why his entire world was flipped upside down. I love Kasuga as much as the next guy, but I don’t think he or his party are the heroes that Japan needs.

7Chrono Trigger

This may sound blasphemous forfans of classic RPGs, but let’s be real, the cast ofChrono Triggershould not have been able to save the day. The cast is mostly made up of young people who find themselves on a time-traveling adventure to stop Lavos from destroying the world.

We do see Chrono lose to Lavos, and I have a hard time viewing anything else as the canon ending of the game. The group really should have been defeated by Lavos considering the creature had the strength to literally destroy the world. I just don’t think X Strike is going to cut it.

Ichiban takes a selfie with Joon-gi Han, Saeko and Zhao behind him in Yakuza: Like A Dragon.

6Tales Of Symphonia

In another stroke of sheer blasphemy, one of the beloved games from the Tales series,Tales Of Symphoniahasa cast full of people who probably shouldn’t have been able to succeed. Between Colette’s clumsiness, Zelos’s insufferable nature, and Kratos’ betrayal, things should have been much worse.

Realistically, without a new game plus run, the journey should end right when Kratos turns on the group, especially considering the only thing that saves the day is purely because the plot demands it. I’m just convinced the only reason the group really survived was because the game still needed to subject you to Zelos.

Chrono Trigger Box Art

5Final Fantasy 7

There are a lot of reasons why things should have gone as horribly as possible for the cast ofFinal Fantasy 7. First, Cloud’s brain does essentially break at one point, and that makes the whole heroics thing a lot more difficult.

He does eventually come out of it thanks to the help of Tifa, but there is the tiny issue of the living alien god that is Sephiroth. Cloud may have a big sword, but I don’t think Tifa’s punches, Cait-Sith’s fortunes, and Cid’s staff thumps are going to do much against something called Bizarro Sephiroth. One-Winged Angel alone should be enough to tell you no one can beat Sephiroth.

Lloyd, Kratos, Colette, and Genis in combat, in Tales Of Symphonia.

4Earthbound

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, as much fun as the charming the kids save the day thing is, I don’t think it would have gone well inEarthboundfor Ness. Giygas is literally said to be the embodiment of evil, and I don’t think a kid with a bat and a yo-yo can handle that, psychic powers or not.

They may have the mighty Poo on their side, but alas, I don’t think even that is enough, sorry Poo. I just don’t believe a 13-year-old is going to be defeating an immense cosmic force, regardless of what one of the best RPGs of all time tells me.

Red, Barett, Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith Watching the Whispers

3Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot

We just have to insert the meme here sinceDragon Ball Z: Kakarotexists. The heroes of Dragon Ball Z really shouldn’t have ever been able to win when their whole thing is letting the bad guys get as powerful as possible before they fight them.

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It backfires tremendously in literally every instance, with the only saving grace being the classic plot convenience of suddenly pushing past limits to become miles stronger than the villain. Any real villain is just going to blast Goku in the gut and call it a day. I don’t know what Frieza was thinking.

2Mass Effect: Legendary Edition

While it is far from the traditional RPG party, the crew of the Normandy probably couldn’t have beaten the Reapers inMass Effect. If you believe some fan theories, it’s possible that Shepard and the crew actually didn’t end up saving the day anyway.

There really isn’t anything about the crew’s incompetence, though you could insert the prerequisite Commander Shepard dancing joke here. The real issue is the overwhelming might of the Reapers, the odds stacked against the heroes, and the fact that Shepard really only does make it far enough to save the day because the game says so more than anything that makes sense.

Ness stands in front of Paula, Jeff, and Poo

1Fire Emblem: Three Houses

Far from the traditional RPG experience,Fire Emblem: Three Houseshas one incredibly clear reason why Byleth would never see it to the journey’s end. Byleth would be far too preoccupied dating absolutely every one of the people in their army to actually wage war.

Things may be running on a rather tight schedule, but Byleth just seems like the type to completely forget that it was time to go to war today, and instead, simply took another friend out to the garden for a nice cup of tea.

Goku and Piccolo prepare to trade punches, inches away from each other.

Mass Effect 3 Citadel all characters together

Fire Emblem Three Houses Art of the head of each house